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ShadowOfSouls wrote:

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Then please do tell us what was GOOD about the movies...

I already did that, multiple times, dude. That doesn't seem to be helping. And that's not what's important here anyway. What is important is whether you are capable of comprehending simple logic: Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Now what else do you think needs to be said if I get fooled a third time?

That's like me going into somebody's kitchen, with this preconceived notion in my head that this guy can't possibly be a good cook. So, more than likely, my mind is going to tell my taste buds, which can't think for themselves, that I was absolutely right -- this crap is nasty! Yet and still, I was the idiot who went back for two more helpings from the same pot, prepared by the same cook? I could understand trying something once, and then deciding I don't like it, but not three consecutive times, and still having the nerve to whine about it. Damn.

In this case, it seems to me that y'all should be taking up these complaints with George Lucas. He was the one who made these movies. He's not even here to defend himself. But if he was, I'm sure he'd tell you pretty much the same thing I'm telling you, which is the simple fact that you were the ones who kept coming back for more after the first sample! Why?

"You might as well get used to that, and stop stating the obvious."

Actually, the above was not a fair statement on my part. I need to take my own advice. So, to that end, I suppose I might as well get used to folk not making too much sense around here half the time. And I need to stop stating the obvious.

*pats self on the back for coming to that conclusion before someone else got a chance to point it out*

Drey wrote: "And I don't hate prequels. I should have specified that those particular prequels suck, not all prequels. The first sentence of my first post to this thread should have read "The prequels suck". As such, I type in-dialect, so I reckon it's hard to hear syntax I'm not typing."

Ah. Classic miscommunication then. No problemo.       

w.r.t. my thoughts about the movies.

You specifically stated that you were "not going to argue further on this", because you had already shared your thoughts about the movies. All without looking for a fight, correct? But you just made yourself out to be a liar. Not only did you come back to share more of your thoughts, but you do indeed seem to be "looking for a fight" according to your last statement:

Perhaps you need to take a few minutes and think about what you write so that you can, as you say, start making some sense.

First of all, I've been making perfect sense all along. You haven't answered all my other questions, besides the main one that I've been stressing, which I'll admit wasn't fair because it was a question I derived from Drey's earlier statement about prequels; that was a misunderstanding on my part as to what he meant, and I was wrong to then attribute that same misunderstanding onto the rest of you regarding prequels in general. So you did go into these movies with an open mind? Somehow, I'm having a little difficulty believing that now -- specifically of you, rotor, thanks to your going back on your word in this very thread and proving yourself to be at least an occasional liar.

Then again, I suppose all of us are subject to that as human beings. Shouldn't be too hard to forgive you for that.

Truth be told, it doesn't really matter what I believe. None of you are actually obligated to answer any of my questions, just as you are not obligated to keep your negative opinions to yourselves. Anyway, let's do a little review now, shall we?

This whole debacle got started when the original poster asked this question: What self-respecting Star Wars Fan would like the new ones opposed to the old?

To which I responded by saying: Well, this self-respecting Star Wars fan, for one. What, just because you didn't like the new ones, that means that I must not be a "self-respecting" fan? I fail to see the logic in that.

I then went on to describe exactly what I liked about the new movies, along with one thing in particular that I didn't like. I then followed it up by stating that I liked all 3 of the new movies better than at least the first 2 of the old ones by a pretty good margin. So far, so good, right? Nothing wrong with that. I even concluded that post with the following disclaimer: *shrugs* That's not to say that I don't see your opinion as valid, just because it happens to clash with mine. WTF?

After that is when Drey came along with the henceforth notoriously misunderstood statement: Prequels are awful.

I guess I just saw that part and ran with it, without considering what he followed it up with: Notable exceptions include Qui Gon Jin and Darth Maul, then they die and that's about it for the prequels.     

But even though I misunderstood that first statement at the time, I still didn't jump off the deep end yet. I still came back with the simple fact that I disagreed, followed by more of what I actually liked about the new movies. It wasn't until I came to the part about Anakin, though, that this debate began its inevitable descent into the flaming annals of infamy.

After I said..  I liked all the graphics of the new films compared to the old; the lightsaber duels were more dynamic; character development was on point -- particularly the transition from Anakin Skywalker to Darth Vader  .. is when rotor came in with his mocking laugh at loud, which ignited the argument in earnest:

lol. this was perhaps the biggest shortcoming of the prequels. Anakin, who was supposed to be the strongest jedi who goes to the darkside, is a whiney spoiled little brat who has authority issues with his father figure in Ben. Its too trivial and was an opportunity missed for a much better story. It does not do justice to the Vader we see in the originals.

While I respect that as being your opinion, I do NOT respect how you just presented it to me as fact. As if your opinion automatically trumps mine in this case. Yet you somehow claim that you weren't looking for a fight? If you weren't, then perhaps you should've thought before writing so that you could, as I said, make sense. Because the way you stated the above, as an immediate response to the things I mentioned, was the proverbial rock thrown at the head of the sleeping lion.

Hence my reasoning for coming at you in the way that I did immediately thereafter: LOL! And tell me, whose almighty opinion is this based on again? Cause it sure ain't mine. As far as Anakin being a "whiney spoiled little brat who has authority issues with his father figure in Ben," I say so the hell what?! It was a gradual progression from the lighthearted child-genius to the power-mad Lord of the Sith that we all came to know and respect in the originals. I mean, what did you want him to be like before he turned to the Dark Side? Some regal lord (despite being only a teenager at the time) with the voice of James Earl Jones, walking around Force-choking everybody who even looked at him the wrong way? And how plausible do you suppose that would've been, compared to a slower, more natural transition from childhood to adulthood?

After that is when Drey came back with further commentary from his perspective. Now he's answered the question about "proconceived notions" and all that, but a couple questions you didn't answer, Drey: As far as questions being answered that "nobody asked", how do you know what other fans were asking? Did you do some kind of survey that I didn't know about?

Yeah, I know. All of this quite amusing, and it helps pass the time. I understand completely. So if you don't wanna answer my questions, it's all good in the hood. Just try to realize that I myself wasn't actually looking for a fight, either. Shouldn't really matter who liked the new movies better than the old, or vice versa. Like my guy Slim said, opinions are like assholes; everybody's got one. Just don't forget to wipe and flush when you're done in there, obee kaybee?

Yet again, Souls, opinions are not facts. There's no right or wrong answer when it comes to opinion, so trying to dictate to the masses that the old movies will ALWAYS be better is more than a little misleading. Particularly since your opinion is no one else's but your own. But now I've gone and done it again: I've just stated the obvious.

Getting back to the discussion at hand, I personally find your reasoning about Luke having more reason than his father to come across as whiny rather weak. Being stumped down in a friggin' farm... Give me a break! Anakin had been a damn slave, dude. And he was freed at the cost of his relationship with his mother! She had to remain behind as a slave, while Anakin went off on his grand adventures with the Jedi Knights -- who immediately expressed mistrust, due to his fears and intense feelings for his mother. As he grew older, the Jedi still didn't trust him. He became whiny and resentful because of that, even toward Obi Wan, who was the closest thing he had to a father. All in all, Anakin had a helluva lot more on his plate than Luke did by comparison!

So again I say (and just to clarify, this is only my opinion, not fact), your reasoning is pretty weak there, Souls.

Well I was about 12 or 13 at the time Phantom Menace came out, so I guess my mind was about as open as any white pre-teen in the late 90's. Which is to say, I was all "OMFG a new Star Wars movie, oh hell that guy has a double lightsaber and wtf is a pod race?! ROBOTS!"

Mmhahaha! Ahh, that's a good one! I hadn't realized that you were that young at the time. Priceless. Thanks, Drey. :D

Nah, don't sweat it, Johnny. I just kinda took offense to your question with regards to "self-respecting Star Wars fans." I have a nasty habit of doing that: taking offense where none was actually intended, but that I had no way of knowing it was unintentional.

For the record, I'm not one of the voters who liked the new films just because of the graphics. I liked that trilogy as a whole. Phantom Menace rocked in my opinion, whereas A New Hope is the only one out of all six movies that really sucked eggs -- except when I first saw it, of course, considering how young I was. Like Drey just pointed out about himself with regards to the prequels.